The rich are always immoral - according to Jean

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A friend, Jean Bosco Walsh posted the "Money is the root of evils" (see below) article from "Upworthy".

http://www.upworthy.com/take-two-normal-people-add-money-to-just-one-of-them-and-watch-what-happens-next?c=ufb3

I commented on her Facebook:

"Wow! Should we tell our children to quit school, advise them to take hard drugs, drink at a young age, live in ghetto or on the streets, get in and out of jail, be dirt-poor and subsist on welfare... so that they will somehow and automatically be more honest? This kind of "studies" is junk, anecdotal and lacking of statistical understanding. These sloppy "experiments" with problematic sample size and population, incorrect inference and poor regression analysis imply ludicrously that an indigent person is (always or most probably) more honest than a "Bill Gates"! Correlation does not imply causation: a BMW driver who did not stop for pedestrians could be a teenager jerk and not because he/she is rich!!!"

Jean Bosco Walsh I wonder if you saw the monopoly game part of the video? your way jumping in correlation. ... not this study...

7 hours ago 

Michael Wyn " I watched the entire video. The monopoly game had too many variables (age, gender, population, sample size, location...) to be statistically significant. Several years ago a study claimed an increase of cancer incidents of children living under or nearpower line. Regression analysis identified the flawed methodology: most of the subjects in the study were poor, unhealthy children who also were living near or under power lines. Being poor does not make you virtuous."

Jean Bosco Walsh 30 studies on thousands......?? There are many flawed research studies to point to... just not sure it is relevant with this.... Let's play the rigged monopoly game , I bet we would both change given some time in our positions.... human nature....

Michael Wyn "Power line causes cancer. Vaccinations trigger autism. UFO's in Area 51. Flat earth. Fake moon landing. Money brings immorality. Conspiracies...: all have been soundly discredited. Human morality is not formed by how much money we have or have not. It is instilled by our upbringing, our family, friends and peers we have, inner strength to know right from wrong and our continuing daily assessment of our life. Throughout history there have been lots of noble wealthy folks and absolutely horrible poverty-stricken despicable characters."

Wealth and high morality can go hand in hand.  http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_and_melinda_gates_why_giving_away_our_wealth_has_been_the_most_satisfying_thing_we_ve_done?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2014-04-05&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_content=top_left_image

Jean Bosco Walsh I know there are a lot of rich people who do good things with their money... got it.(And the video even showed some who made the pledge..... point of the study is the title..... "Take two normal....." Have you read the book "Only the super rich can save us" by Ralph Nader? It's a novel ... so don't start arguing facts with me!.

Michael Wyn I am glad that you agree with me and that you don't like facts!  There are many sensational one-liners and sound bites which are misleading and wrong. Who and what are two "normal" people? Are these mathematically average or median? Where do we find them? Are they randomly picked from (name your favorite town/locale: ghettos, Beverly Hills, rural or Harvard university, ... )? re. Ralph Nader: Isn't he a bit anachronistic?

Science and faith

Notes from last several months. 

I have been engaging in a short online discussion with several young physicians (friends of Amy) who believe that God can be found through logic and intellectual inquiry. I believe that is not possible. Saying that I don't like/want to eat broccoli is not a matter for

scientific inquiry. Faith is believing and from some other reference frame it can

look quite illogical, unscientific and maddening. The Bible is not a history nor scientific

book. Folks who try to fit it into an engineering/scientific framework do not

understand science nor Faith. There have been attempts to make religion more

"respectable" by cover it under a scientific/intellectual facade. A famous quote:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

These young physicians sent me this link:

http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/scientists-claim-that-quantum-theory-proves-consciousness-moves-to-another-universe-at-death/

My response: 

This is not science. It is speculation. There is no evidence of life after death. Quantum physics says nothing about "consciousness moves to another Universe at death"! Please see http://www.skepdic.com/nde.html (and many reputable other sources) in which "....(scientists) attribute the feelings of extreme peacefulness of the NDE to the release of endorphins in response to the extreme stress of the situation. The buzzing or ringing sound is attributed to cerebral anoxia and consequent effects upon the connections between brain cells (op. cit., 64).

Dr. Karl Jansen has reproduced NDEs with ketamine, a short-acting hallucinogenic, dissociative anesthetic.

The anesthesia is the result of the patient being so 'dissociated' and 'removed from their body' that it is possible to carry out surgical procedures. This is wholly different from the 'unconsciousness' produced by conventional anesthetics, although ketamine is also an excellent analgesic (pain killer) by a different route (i.e. not due to dissociation). Ketamine is related to phencyclidine (PCP). Both drugs are arylcyclohexylamines - they are not opioids and are not related to LSD. In contrast to PCP, ketamine is relatively safe, is much shorter acting, is an uncontrolled drug in most countries, and remains in use as an anaesthetic for children in industrialised countries and all ages in the third world as it is cheap and easy to use. Anaesthetists prevent patients from having NDE's ('emergence phenomena') by the co-administration of sedatives which produce 'true' unconsciousness rather than dissociation.* 

According to Dr. Jansen, ketamine can reproduce all the main features of the NDE, including travel through a dark tunnel into the light, the feeling that one is dead, communing with some god,..."

• Michael Wyn I share your hope and wish that there is life after death. But as far as we know now the prospect does not look too good. I am more a skeptic and would like to see better evidence... before believing...

  January 23 at 11:43am · Edited · Like
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  Radeyah Sos you're so smart

  January 23 at 12:16pm · Like
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  Amy Marcos if you mean Michael Wyn, he has to be heading a tech company !

  January 23 at 2:03pm · Like
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  Alvro Ramoz That's one informed fella.

  January 23 at 2:45pm · Like
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  David Ramos Michael interesting stuff. If you haven't already, you should look into DMT / dimethyltryptamine - it takes what you've described with Dr. Jansen to a much more profound level that dwarfs the outer body effects of those ketamine derivatives ... Science does not trump such speculation nor rule out the possibility of life after death - science has no greater weight than speculation when it comes to arguing over these grand questions of life / death. In my humble opinion, science as we know it is much speculation, especially when you're talking all this quantum physics stuff and are trying to understand reality, the universe, etc on that deep, relatively unknown level of research and science. If anything, the effects of the substances / drugs you've described, coupled with the sheer power of the brain, the mind, and how very little we know about it all, leads me to lean towards the supernatural rather than nothingness.

  January 23 at 8:52pm · Like
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  Michael Wyn Hi David: Thanks for your note. Science is based upon careful observations, empirical evidences and rigorous testings, typically across many disciplines by separate, independent and unbiased observers/scientists. The purpose of scientific study is to discover principle, rule(s) to support or contradict a theory. Science does not rely upon speculation. Bertrand Russell's teapot is the analogy to demand burden of proof upon speculation. Carl Sagan paraphrased as "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Quantum physics is not speculative: in my work we have to adjust satellite atomic clocks regularly thanks to quantum effects and relativity; laser light demonstrates the quanta property of electromagnetic radiation, tunnel diodes are real.... Science cannot argue the possibility of life after death because proving a negative (example: prove that unicorns do not exist) is not possible nor is a scientific method. Science is "organic" meaning if there is evidence/discovery identifying a certain principle violating current understanding science will change. Anyone who identifies a person returning from real death will probably get an immediate Nobel prize in Medicine.

  January 23 at 10:54pm · Like
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  Amy Marcos Hold on ! let's bring a TED forum in here before we continue this thread